SwapCard, Hopin, Socio?! It's not the tool, it's how you use it.

Nessa (: 00:08

Welcome to the Kickass Conferences Talk Show. I'm Nessa, the operations manager for Kickass Conferences.

Isaac (: 00:15

And I'm Isaac Watson, executive producer.

Nessa (: 00:17

Yeah. And this is the podcast for creating conferences people actually want to attend by the people who create them. You can find the full show notes, transcripts, and more at our website, kickassconf.com. All right. Now this week, I wanted to talk about event tools because I had a conversation earlier this week, I think it was on Monday, that inspired this. So I'll tell you the story about it. I was invited by an event tool or like a meeting with their branding team. They hired a branding team. They're doing a redesign. So they're collecting feedback from clients, and I was one of the people they asked. And of course I said, yes, because I'm nosy and I like to talk. So it works out.

Isaac (: 01:01

And you have opinions, which is why we love you.

Nessa (: 01:07

I have opinions and I'm happy to share them. So during a conversation, one of the questions that they asked was, "What is a feature that we could add to the product that would make you more committed to using it or that would make you buy it?" And my response to that question, because at that point... It was the end of the conversation and I feel like they were getting really into the nitty-gritty that I felt like wasn't very helpful. So my response was, "I don't really care about the features. It depends on who the product is for, who I'm planning to use it with." And that response to them was very exciting, I guess, or a very different, unexpected because they reacted very strongly to that. And we got into a whole conversation about like, "But oh, you mentioned that it's not about the features. Could you tell us more about that?" And so I wanted to talk more about that with you today because I think it should be spoken about, because based on their reaction, I guess, we're not talking about it enough.

Isaac (: 02:15

Yes. And I think, like you, I have many opinions about this too. And so I think that's interesting, and I think this happens all the time. You have a software tool that is trying to grow and expand. And so the natural thing that they want to do is add more features, "Well, what our customers want to see? How can we meet their needs?" which to an extent can be healthy, but I think it's important to understand that there's room for specialization. Right? You don't have to add all the features that your customers want. And so I think this comes to me back to this notion of... Well, first of all, there are a bajillion event tools these days. Right? The proliferation of event tech since the pandemic hit has been really mind-numbing. It's just like, "Oh, another platform. Oh, this one's going public. Oh, acquisition spree. Oh." It's startup heaven. Right?

Nessa (: 03:27

Yeah. COVID gave birth to a lot of event platforms, a ridiculous amount.

Isaac (: 03:33

It did. And of course all the ones that have been around for years are like-

Nessa (: 03:38

"Excuse me."

Isaac (: 03:38

... "Uh, we've been here. We've been doing this already." So I think when we talk about event tools, I like to think of it as two classes of event tools. Right? So there's the big platforms that are generalists. They're, quote-unquote, one-stop shops. They're the ones that purport to do everything that you might need, when the truth is they don't do everything. They just do a lot of what a typical or a standard kind of virtual conference or virtual event might want. So examples of this would be Socio or Hopin or Attendify or Swapcard. Right? These are virtual venues that have built-in live streaming and chat and networking and schedule ticketing sometimes, things like that. Right? Those are the generalists.

Isaac (: 04:35

Then the other class of event tools that I see are the specialist tools. Right? And these are the ones that focus on one or two key things, and they focus really deeply on doing it really well, doing it very well. So we've used some of these tools ourselves and we love them, and we've used some of the big tools. The big tools? The broad tools, let's call that. Right? So examples of that would be Tito is fantastic for ticketing, super simple, easy to embed, is just rock solid, great, great tool.

Nessa (: 05:19

Yeah. They're great with ticketing. Yep.

Isaac (: 05:21

Yeah. Gatheround, which used to be called Icebreaker, really fantastic at this video speed-dating-style, timed games where you're randomly matched with somebody else in the group. Right? That's a very, very niche thing, and they're leaning into it and doing it really well.

Nessa (: 05:43

Yes. And it's really well done. I like them a lot. And so far, there's not a lot of people that are doing that same thing. Right? I really haven't found anybody doing that. So they're definitely specializing in that sort of speed-dating-type networking thing which I think is cool.

Isaac (: 06:01

Yes. What are some of the other tools that you think and love?

Nessa (: 06:06

So Wonder is one of those tools where it's basically like you're creating a digital room. You're creating this sense of space where people can come in and they move their little icons around this digital space, and it uses spatial audio, so the closer your little circle is to someone else's circle, the louder you can hear them, and you can make little... You can draw tables on the space and do little groups, but it's even hard to explain because it's not a lot that I can say. It's like this tool, but I think what it does well is creating that sense of space and creating that sense of like, "We're here in one room together and I can step away from the circle and yet still be here."

Nessa (: 06:58

Whereas there's a lot of other networking things where it's like, "You're in or you're out? I'm dropping you into a conversation your camera on, or you have to leave." So I think that they serve introverts well. I can be there, but I don't have to be all up in a conversation. And then there's Snapbar, which I think is the coolest. They take this concept of the photo booth, and they pivoted during the pandemic to serve that virtual event audience. So you're still having the photo booth, but it's online and you do cute little stickers. You take a picture on your webcam. You add stickers, add backgrounds and things like that. And that's literally all that they do. It's just photo booths. So I would say you can't get more specialized than that. Right?

Isaac (: 07:46

Yeah, exactly. So you have these broad tools and you have these specialized tools, these narrow tools, and that's great. One is not better than the other, but the point is that there are so many tools out there that are all vying for our attention and they're all trying to sell us on what they have to offer. And so it has this effect of convincing us that there's one answer. And so everybody's like, "Well, which one do I use?" Because that's sort of the question.

Nessa (: 08:23

Yeah. Everybody's looking for the one, the right one, quote-unquote right one, and that's not really the best way to think about that.

Isaac (: 08:32

Yeah. So I would say instead of sort of asking what is the best tool or what is the right tool for me to use, I think the better question is, what is the right tool for me to use? And what that means is that you need to know what you need in a tool or in, newsflash, multiple tools. We'll talk about that in a little bit, where you have a certain set of requirements and then you go and find the tools that meet those requirements. So if you're chasing down a platform or trying to get in on the next it tech tool or whatever, that kind of works against whatever your goals and whatever your needs are, because you're just chasing fancy features instead of thinking about what you actually need.

Nessa (: 09:29

Here at Kickass Conferences, a strong strategy is at the core of every event we produce. That's why before we produce any event, we guide community leaders, just like you, through what we call our EventLab. EventLab is a 90-minute intensive session where Isaac and I help you to translate your conference ideas into a concrete roadmap for production. EventLab allows us to craft the appropriate strategy for each event with your needs and goals in mind before you invest in production staff or services. After EventLab, you'll be able to confidently move forward with event production, whether that's through our strategic production services or with someone else. Schedule a free, no obligation consultation with Nessa and Isaac at kickassconf.com/eventlab to find out if our EventLab is right for you.

Nessa (: 10:24

Okay. So let's jump right back into it. So we've already talked about the fact that there's so many tools out there and the struggle people have of like, "Which one do I choose? Which one is the right one?" And you've already alluded to the fact that there's no such thing as the best one, the right one. It's all about what is right for you and your needs. So how do you even know what you need then if it depends on that? Right? If there is no perfect platform, which there'll never be, how do we figure that out?

Isaac (: 11:00

Well, it may come as a surprise to you, Nessa, but I would definitely advocate for a strategy first. That's kind of what we do, but I kid, but I don't because seriously, you need strategy first. If you don't know what your strategy is, you're not going to know what you need in advance. And so what makes up that strategy? That strategy is made up of understanding who your audience is, understanding what your goals are, what your audience's goals are, and understanding what kind of program you're going to deliver to that audience to meet those goals. If you have all of that identified, it becomes so much easier to go and find the right tool or tools that are going to serve those needs and serve those goals much more intelligently than picking a tool first, and then figuring out how to cram your event into it. It's kind of... I mean, I've written about this before, and it's the equivalent in the in-person world of booking a venue before you even know what you're going to do with it.

Nessa (: 12:13

Exactly. It doesn't make sense to me that so many people are trying to make the platform decision as the first thing that they choose. That doesn't make sense.

Isaac (: 12:23

Yes. I have this... So a couple of years ago, I went on a lightning tour of the Oakland area, and it was with the Visitors Association there, and I went to go see the Oakland Museum of California. Cool, really gorgeous space. They have these awesome terraces on the roof, and I was like, "I want to do an event here," but am I going to go and book it and then find an event to do here? No, I'm not. I'm going to log that back in my brain, and I'm going to say, "Okay. In the future, if I have a client that is based in Oakland or the Bay Area and they're looking for a particular vibe and the format of their program fits the capacity and whatnot, then we're going to go after that venue." Well, it's the same thing in the digital space.

Isaac (: 13:16

Seeing a shiny Hopin or a Swapcard or whatever, and buying into its features and being like, "Yep. Sign me up," before you even know what you're doing is shooting yourself in the foot because then you have to react to that weird early decision and try and compensate for it. So I think that key is going back to the strategy, figure that out first, and then you can be like, "Oh, okay. Here's the feature set for this all-in-one platform. It's going to do X, Y, Z. Great," or "It's not going to hit the mark on this. Okay. Well maybe I can find a specialized tool that then integrates with it and then I can solve that problem. Okay. Great," or "Maybe there's not one. And then I need to move on and try and find another one." That makes the process so much easier than just saying what's the best tool.

Nessa (: 14:10

Yeah. And in the past 15 months of the pandemic, I have been to a lot of conferences about conferences or events about events, and especially the first ones in the first six, seven months, they were all about platforms, and I did not find them helpful at all because of what you're saying. I didn't have a particular event in mind. So you showing me this platform, this list of features, all of these things, I can add it to my mental list of possible venues, possible tools, but if I don't know who this is for, I didn't them very helpful. And yet in the chats, the live chats, the breakout rooms, that was the question that people were continually asking. They were obsessed about, "Okay. Which tools should I use? What tool are you using? Do you recommend it for me?" without any kind of context or details, and that's not a question that you could just answer generically like, "Yeah. This is the tool that'll work for everything." There's no such thing. There's no such thing. Yeah.

Isaac (: 15:19

It doesn't exist. There is no one answer, and I think that's what drives me nuts about this and about all of these conversations that I hear, is that everybody seems to be focused on where's the unicorn, and there isn't one. I'm sorry. It doesn't exist. So what that means, perfect segue, is that once you do know your strategy, then you go about crafting your tech stack. And if you're not familiar with what a tech stack is, it's a phrase that's used a lot in the tech world, duh, where you're basically assembling multiple tools to serve your needs. And so that tech stack foreign event is going to be comprised of all kinds of different things, depending on how you look at it, and this is everything from what's your virtual venue, so that may be your Hopin, or your Swapcard, or your Socio, or whatever. You're going to need a way to communicate with attendees. So we're talking email marketing service. So maybe that's Mailchimp. Maybe it's ConvertKit, maybe Constant Contact. Maybe it's HubSpot, whatever. You're going to have... You're going to need some actual thing to do with the live stream, and that's something that a lot of people don't realize necessarily, is that these big event platforms don't... They receive the live stream, but how are you creating the live stream? Right?

Nessa (: 16:52

That is a great point. People actually think that the platforms are the live stream service, and those are two different things. You have to have a Vimeo or something to actually do the live stream. So they invest in the platform, and then they get there and they're like, "Oh no. We don't actually have a stream." Yeah.

Isaac (: 17:11

Yes. It could also be like, are you using Slack for your internal team communications? Are you using something for your social media marketing? All of the tools that you are using are going to compile together into your tech stack, and the key there is to look for what needs to integrate with each other, and that's how you then discern which specialist tools can plug and play with either a generalist tool or other specialist tools. Some of these integrations are baked in. You could very easily find a ticketing tool that automatically adds people to your Mailchimp list, so you can then communicate with them quick. Other things have to be done a little more nerdily through a Zapier function or something like that, but those integrations are going to be key because otherwise you end up with a bunch of redundant data. You have areas for missed holes and things like that. But by knowing what you need from the get-go, you can then craft your tech stack to fit all of those needs and come up with a whole package solution that's going to serve all the features that you need without trying to find one tool to rule them all, because it doesn't exist.

Nessa (: 18:35

Yeah. At the end of the day, we want to make it as easy as possible with as little tools as possible. It's never going to be just one, sadly, but make sure that they played well together. And I was even thinking in-person, I mean, walkie-talkies. That's part of the tech stack. Right? As we do hybrid, that's going to become a thing of mixing the Slack with the walkie-talkie, I guess. I don't know. That's something to think about. Right? And with networking, if you want to do a networking activity within Socio, you have to make sure that whatever tool you're using for the networking embeds in the Socio, because every time you have to send people, "Oh, you have to click on this thing to open this separate thing so that we can do the networking event," you're creating more work for the attendees, and that just means that they're less likely to do it.

Isaac (: 19:37

Yeah. And I think you bring up a good point that we've been talking through these episodes a lot about virtual events, because that's where we all are right now. Even as certain parts of the world continue to open up, there's still a lot of focus on virtual and a lot of questions around virtual. The same goes for in-person. The tech stack is not going to be entirely solved with one AV team because you still have to deal with pre-event communications. You still have to deal with ticketing. You still have to deal with onsite communications, wayfinding if you're doing digital signage. All of this stuff plays into the tech stack and even into the low-tech stack. Right? Like walkie-talkies, like comms backstage, so you can communicate with the team, all that kind of stuff plays into it. So it's the same principle.

Nessa (: 20:30

And we're still dealing with or we still will be dealing with a certain level of COVID regulations. So that's also a part of the tech stack that we're going to have to think about as well of how are we checking people in and keeping track of the numbers in, numbers out, know where people are so that we're keeping the distance that we need. Right? So in hybrid events and the in-person events, that's going to be interesting of what is that going to look like now? Because the tech stack in the future is not the one that we have pre-COVID, I feel like. I feel like there's going to be a lot more conversation, especially since all of these tools born during the pandemic are still going to want to exist. So they're going to try to find ways to be part of that hybrid thing.

Isaac (: 21:22

Yes. I had this moment of just some random thought the other day, where I was like, "What if hybrid events are just companies pushing to continue to make money serving certain formats?" It kind of blew my mind, and I don't think it's necessarily true. I think there... And we'll probably talk about this on another episode, but I do think that there is a value to be had through doing a hybrid event well, but I think related to that is you have... I have seen and I've heard conversations about this recently, where when doing in-person events again, where doing hybrid events where you have in-person plus a live stream component, that the AV companies, the vendors that are being used are starting to tack on more and more and more stuff, and in some cases, it can spiral out of control from a cost standpoint.

Isaac (: 22:27

And I think that right now, there's a lot of really kind of nebulous like, "Ah, don't we need this? Is it really critical? This is cool, but..." and things like that. And at the same time, these AV vendors have been struggling just like event producers have over the last year when events have been shut down. And so they're in a lot of ways... I completely understand that they're trying to recoup costs that they've lost over the last year and a half. So I think that that introduces a lot of open-ended questions about what do we actually need, but that just comes back and underscores the importance of having that strategy in place at the beginning because if you can use that as a touchstone for what your goals are, it's so much easier to look at something and say, "Okay. But does this really hit what we're trying to do here?" And if you can do that, then it just makes those decisions way easier.

Nessa (: 23:33

Absolutely. And that is a perfect segue, another perfect segue, because now we've gotten to our new final segment of the show. It's called Too Long; Didn't Listen. So this is like-

Isaac (: 23:48

I love it.

Nessa (: 23:49

Yeah, this is a too long; didn't read version of the podcast episode. So take it away, Isaac.

Isaac (: 23:56

Too Long; Didn't Listen. All right. So first of all, everybody's going on and on about event tools. There are two classes of tools: generalist and specialist. There is no one tool to rule them all. So how do we figure it out? It comes back to what you need, and you don't know what you need if you don't know what your strategy is. So figure out what your goals are, what your attendees goals are, what your format is first, then go chasing the tools that will fit those needs and craft your tech stack that integrates nicely with itself and that gives you everything that you're looking for. That was like 20 seconds of TLDL.

Nessa (: 24:38

Perfect.

Isaac (: 24:39

Too Long; Didn't Listen. I love... This is my favorite new segment. This is happening from now on. I love it.

Nessa (: 24:46

So thanks for listening, everyone. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others and leave a rating and review on all the apps that you listen to podcasts. To find more information and resources on hosting your own kick-ass conference, you can find us at kickassconf.com. Bye everyone.

Isaac (: 25:05

Bye.